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	<title>Comments for Tim van Gelder</title>
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	<link>http://timvangelder.com</link>
	<description>Bringing visual clarity to complex issues</description>
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		<title>Comment on Asbestos and Extinctions by Kevin Korb</title>
		<link>http://timvangelder.com/2008/01/01/asbestos-and-extinctions/#comment-905</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Kevin Korb]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jan 2012 05:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://rtnl.wordpress.com/2008/01/01/asbestos-and-extinctions/#comment-905</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well, there&#039;s impact (utility) and probability. What actually is the change in probability of mesothelioma given low exposure to asbestos? Without knowing that, it&#039;s hard to say whether worry about the neighbor&#039;s house is obsessive or not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, there&#8217;s impact (utility) and probability. What actually is the change in probability of mesothelioma given low exposure to asbestos? Without knowing that, it&#8217;s hard to say whether worry about the neighbor&#8217;s house is obsessive or not.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Argument mapping in strategic planning by Tim van Gelder</title>
		<link>http://timvangelder.com/2011/07/11/argument-mapping-in-strategic-planning/#comment-903</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim van Gelder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Jan 2012 06:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvangelder.com/?p=916#comment-903</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For a good introduction to &quot;skilled facilitation&quot; in this area, see Jeff Conklin&#039;s excellent book Dialog Mapping, though bear in mind that argument mapping is a somewhat different activity, and has its own set of technical niceties not covered in Jeff&#039;s book.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For a good introduction to &#8220;skilled facilitation&#8221; in this area, see Jeff Conklin&#8217;s excellent book Dialog Mapping, though bear in mind that argument mapping is a somewhat different activity, and has its own set of technical niceties not covered in Jeff&#8217;s book.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Argument mapping in strategic planning by fredrikbranstrom</title>
		<link>http://timvangelder.com/2011/07/11/argument-mapping-in-strategic-planning/#comment-902</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[fredrikbranstrom]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Dec 2011 15:16:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvangelder.com/?p=916#comment-902</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;The best responses are usually obtained when argument mapping is used as a method or tool in skilled facilitation.&quot;

Can you elaborate on that? What is skilled facilitation?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;The best responses are usually obtained when argument mapping is used as a method or tool in skilled facilitation.&#8221;</p>
<p>Can you elaborate on that? What is skilled facilitation?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Missing I in BI (repost) by On the limitations of business intelligence systems &#171; Eight to Late</title>
		<link>http://timvangelder.com/2011/08/01/the-missing-i-in-bi-repost/#comment-891</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[On the limitations of business intelligence systems &#171; Eight to Late]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvangelder.com/?p=964#comment-891</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] (although the latter does have more pizzazz).   However, as Tim Van Gelder pointed out in an insightful post,  most BI tools available in the market do not offer a means to clarify the rationale behind [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (although the latter does have more pizzazz).   However, as Tim Van Gelder pointed out in an insightful post,  most BI tools available in the market do not offer a means to clarify the rationale behind [...]</p>
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		<title>Comment on What is MECE, and is it MECE? by kattanh3</title>
		<link>http://timvangelder.com/2010/06/04/what-is-mece-and-is-it-mece/#comment-885</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[kattanh3]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Nov 2011 17:18:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvangelder.com/?p=654#comment-885</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It&#039;s just a guideline, and a very solid one. All guidelines require common sense and intelligence to determine the quality of the output. The McKinsey approach to brief engagements (developing 3 solutions that are MECE) is simple and effective, rather than complete and extensive.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s just a guideline, and a very solid one. All guidelines require common sense and intelligence to determine the quality of the output. The McKinsey approach to brief engagements (developing 3 solutions that are MECE) is simple and effective, rather than complete and extensive.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Argument Maps versus Argument Infographics by Nick Fryars (@ArgueForAction)</title>
		<link>http://timvangelder.com/2011/05/30/argument-maps-versus-argument-infographics/#comment-872</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nick Fryars (@ArgueForAction)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Nov 2011 11:00:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvangelder.com/?p=880#comment-872</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We absorb all arguments sequentially by necessity. Most arguments are delivered as spoken words or sequential text. So the sequential presentation in the right hand graphic corresponds to how most arguments are delivered, whether they are good or bad. My question would be whether the right hand graphic contains a coherent argument. As Ian has pointed out, clearly it does not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We absorb all arguments sequentially by necessity. Most arguments are delivered as spoken words or sequential text. So the sequential presentation in the right hand graphic corresponds to how most arguments are delivered, whether they are good or bad. My question would be whether the right hand graphic contains a coherent argument. As Ian has pointed out, clearly it does not.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What do we think? Part 1: Public Attitude versus Public Wisdom by Tim van Gelder</title>
		<link>http://timvangelder.com/2011/10/14/what-do-we-think-part-1-public-attitude-versus-public-wisdom/#comment-841</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tim van Gelder]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 21:32:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvangelder.com/?p=1010#comment-841</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Cleveraussie1, Thanks for your thoughts. I can&#039;t imagine how you&#039;d ever get politicians to legislate to improve their own behavior, or submit to training.  The feasible path is not trying to change the existing institutions but to develop new institutions which change the democratic &quot;mix&quot;.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cleveraussie1, Thanks for your thoughts. I can&#8217;t imagine how you&#8217;d ever get politicians to legislate to improve their own behavior, or submit to training.  The feasible path is not trying to change the existing institutions but to develop new institutions which change the democratic &#8220;mix&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on What do we think? Part 1: Public Attitude versus Public Wisdom by cleveraussie1</title>
		<link>http://timvangelder.com/2011/10/14/what-do-we-think-part-1-public-attitude-versus-public-wisdom/#comment-839</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cleveraussie1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 12:23:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvangelder.com/?p=1010#comment-839</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[There are sufficient politicians in Australia to form a crowd, large enough to be representative of the public, and indeed already well enough paid to be doing just that!  They are paid by the public purse to be informed about what the public(including themselves) think, and feel for that matter, for it is not only what the public think that is important.    

Politicians are far from rationally ignorant, continually polling each other, engaging in serious deliberation, and one is very well justified in believing, perfectly placed to form a &#039;coherent collective viewpoint&#039; and arrive at the &#039;wisdom of the crowd&#039; .  A really good question then, is how do we legislate for them to debate and act in accord with this aim?

Unfortunately politicians are also individuals whose &quot;attitudes are subject to manipulation by powerful forces pursuing their own agendas&quot;, namely the upper echelons of their parties whose prime goal is to have the prestige of staying in Government and not in opposition.

So this is what I see as being the main problem, one requiring a major overhaul of the political system.

I agree that the IPPC could be taken as one good model for reaching genuine collective wisdom.  One way of achieving this might be for Barry Jones to use his vast influence and genius to have all politicians well trained in the processes of the scientific methods for collecting all the relevant data, and in the philosophical processes of evaluating that data.  

Another suggestion for setting up a second crowd that is not as self-referential as is the political crowd, would be to legislate that politicians themselves pay for the setting up of an appropriate &#039;&#039;crowd&quot;.  

I cannot help but end, by asking any good political satyrists to come up with a good term that might best describe such a &quot;crowd of politicians&quot; as suggested above!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are sufficient politicians in Australia to form a crowd, large enough to be representative of the public, and indeed already well enough paid to be doing just that!  They are paid by the public purse to be informed about what the public(including themselves) think, and feel for that matter, for it is not only what the public think that is important.    </p>
<p>Politicians are far from rationally ignorant, continually polling each other, engaging in serious deliberation, and one is very well justified in believing, perfectly placed to form a &#8216;coherent collective viewpoint&#8217; and arrive at the &#8216;wisdom of the crowd&#8217; .  A really good question then, is how do we legislate for them to debate and act in accord with this aim?</p>
<p>Unfortunately politicians are also individuals whose &#8220;attitudes are subject to manipulation by powerful forces pursuing their own agendas&#8221;, namely the upper echelons of their parties whose prime goal is to have the prestige of staying in Government and not in opposition.</p>
<p>So this is what I see as being the main problem, one requiring a major overhaul of the political system.</p>
<p>I agree that the IPPC could be taken as one good model for reaching genuine collective wisdom.  One way of achieving this might be for Barry Jones to use his vast influence and genius to have all politicians well trained in the processes of the scientific methods for collecting all the relevant data, and in the philosophical processes of evaluating that data.  </p>
<p>Another suggestion for setting up a second crowd that is not as self-referential as is the political crowd, would be to legislate that politicians themselves pay for the setting up of an appropriate &#8221;crowd&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I cannot help but end, by asking any good political satyrists to come up with a good term that might best describe such a &#8220;crowd of politicians&#8221; as suggested above!</p>
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		<title>Comment on What do we think? Part 1: Public Attitude versus Public Wisdom by cleveraussie1</title>
		<link>http://timvangelder.com/2011/10/14/what-do-we-think-part-1-public-attitude-versus-public-wisdom/#comment-837</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[cleveraussie1]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Oct 2011 06:55:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvangelder.com/?p=1010#comment-837</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Is there a connection between this 20/20 initiative and the CERES 20.20 VISION FOR ACHIEVING A SUSTAINABLE GLOBAL ECONOMY (http://www.ceres.org/about-us/what-we-do/our-vision) launched in 2009?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there a connection between this 20/20 initiative and the CERES 20.20 VISION FOR ACHIEVING A SUSTAINABLE GLOBAL ECONOMY (<a href="http://www.ceres.org/about-us/what-we-do/our-vision" rel="nofollow">http://www.ceres.org/about-us/what-we-do/our-vision</a>) launched in 2009?</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Danger of Truthiness by Harry van der Velde (@harryzicht)</title>
		<link>http://timvangelder.com/2011/09/11/the-danger-of-truthiness/#comment-820</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Harry van der Velde (@harryzicht)]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://timvangelder.com/?p=994#comment-820</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[First habits, then blink blink, truthiness and later, sadder and wiser the truth of the matter. Well, that&#039;s about us right? Not just the horses...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First habits, then blink blink, truthiness and later, sadder and wiser the truth of the matter. Well, that&#8217;s about us right? Not just the horses&#8230;</p>
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